Basic question regarding CDT models and application

[n10aguy]

Greetings All:

I am attempting to outfit my new 2010 Tacoma double cab, and looking for speakers that are better than what is generally found at the big-box stores. There are no CDT dealers in my area, so before throwing myself off the bridge and hoping for the best, I wanted to ask the questions. I am new to the forum but not entirely new to car audio -- any information that can help reduce the trade space / options under consideration is greatly appreciated

First of all, some background information:

I am an older(?) guy, not interested in competition or knocking my fillings out, but like loud, angry music as much as the next middle aged married with children tax-payer. Occasionally, I also like not-so-loud, not-so-angry music. On those occaisions, I do appreciate a little clarity in my sound :) I pretty much live in my truck, so good sound is the objective.

The CDT model(s) of choice will be run off of a 60W RMS x4 amplifier -- name brand, not the best but not flea-market either, and it has the added benefit of being what I have. The amp will be fed through (aftermarket, respectable) LOC's from the factory Tacoma HU. I have a separate amp (250W RMS) that will be driving my "other vendor" 10" sub in custom sealed enclosure tuned for it's T-S parameters and fitting behind my rear seats. I am not looking for "competition quality" sound, but the best sound I can put in my new truck, using as much of my existing gear as possible, and keeping the Spousal Approval Factor (SAF) as close to 1 as possible.

Now the questions:

For the system I described above, will going to a cast basket over a stamped basket set of drivers make an appreciable difference? I am reticent to spend the money on cast baskets if my HU and amp won't really take advantage of the benefits offered over stamped...

If cast basket is recommended, is there an appreciable difference in the CL-E61CV or the EF-61CV series? Not really sure what the Euroframe difference is, other than the mounting looks different (ears vs. ring)?

What is the least expensive crossover that would allow adding additional image tweeters if desired? I see the 450 does not, but maybe a 465A does? What is a typical cost differential between single- and image- tweeter crossovers? Does it make more sense to just go with the 450 and upgrade if "necessary", or go with a x-over that supports image tweeters "just in case"?

Convertibles really appear to offer the most flexibility, but is there a distinct cost advantage to going with just components? I understand I would lose the option of having a centered tweeter in that case, but if the economics were significantly different it might be a trade worth considering.

For the power levels I am running, is there any advantage to CF or FG?

For a 2010 Tacoma Double-Cab, would you expect any major problems mounting the speakers in terms of depth and/or interference to door panels, etc? Do the "slim" speakers offer any advantages, and is the sound quality as good?

What is a typical configuration for this type of vehicle? Components in all 4 doors? Components front/coaxials rear? Components & image in front, midbass driver only rear? Get a pair of earbuds and just hum a lot?

What should I look for in an installer in my area -- there's *lots* of options, from shade-tree guy in his yard to Big Box stores to total high end custom shops -- if I spend the money on the speakers I want to be sure the install doesn't screw up the sound and I don't have the patience, time or anal-retentiveness to do it right :)

Apologies for the Epic Verse, but figured it was better to get the questions all out in one shot, as opposed to bleating you guys to death.

TIA, Cheers

n10aguy

[VertexAudio]

Now the questions:

For the system I described above, will going to a cast basket over a stamped basket set of drivers make an appreciable difference? I am reticent to spend the money on cast baskets if my HU and amp won't really take advantage of the benefits offered over stamped...


The difference in CDT drivers is more than just the basket used. Simply put, the drivers that utilize cast baskets will offer superior sound over drivers utilizing stamped baskets - but not simply because of the basket. All other parts within the driver are upgraded, and every step up you take within the lineup is another step up in sound quality.

So yes, the cast basket drivers will offer improved performance. How much though is dependent on the specific drivers chosen.


What is the least expensive crossover that would allow adding additional image tweeters if desired? I see the 450 does not, but maybe a 465A does? What is a typical cost differential between single- and image- tweeter crossovers? Does it make more sense to just go with the 450 and upgrade if "necessary", or go with a x-over that supports image tweeters "just in case"?The EX-480 (or the updated EX-484) crossover is the least expensive crossover to support image tweeters. The 456 crossovers that you've mentioned (rather than 465) are no longer produced and are quite out-dated.

Each set comes standard with it's own crossovers. For example, on the CDT CL-61i component set the EX-450 crossover is used. When stepping up to the CL-62, CL-62CF, and the HD series, the EX-480 crossover is used. The EX-550i/25 crossovers are used in many of the ES series and PSS series sets.

You can upgrade to EX-480's if you were to purchase the CL-61i set. The cost of the upgrade is dependent on which retailer you choose to purchase from. Some retailers may be willing to allow you downgrade, however that's dependent on the individual retailer.


Convertibles really appear to offer the most flexibility, but is there a distinct cost advantage to going with just components? I understand I would lose the option of having a centered tweeter in that case, but if the economics were significantly different it might be a trade worth considering.
Yes convertibles offer the most flexibility, but components provide the best sound. The ability to place the tweeter wherever you prefer in your car can drastically improve your soundstage. Furthermore, the nicer drivers are available strictly in non-convertible sets. The idea of having a centered tweeter is irrelevant due to the fact that it's not quite optimal. It's more important to have the tweeter placed correctly in the car than to have it placed directly at the mid.



For the power levels I am running, is there any advantage to CF or FG?

Are you planning to bridge your amp? I would personally recommend doing this rather than running 60w to each crossover and then leaving your back 2 channels unused. The CF drivers will sound better for this application as well. The FG drivers are, like the 456 crossovers, outdated and no longer produced by CDT.



For a 2010 Tacoma Double-Cab, would you expect any major problems mounting the speakers in terms of depth and/or interference to door panels, etc? Do the "slim" speakers offer any advantages, and is the sound quality as good?

You will need to check your available mounting depth for your truck. Most of the time though, even if you have limited mounting depth, a baffle can be used to space the speaker out from the door and allow it to fit correctly. The slim drivers have the simple advantage of fitting where other drivers might not. Whether the sound quality is "as good" depends on what specific sets you're comparing the slim component sets to.

[VertexAudio]

Getting to the post limit there, pushing this into a second post ;)



What is a typical configuration for this type of vehicle? Components in all 4 doors? Components front/coaxials rear? Components & image in front, midbass driver only rear? Get a pair of earbuds and just hum a lot?



This comes down to personal preference. A lot of people prefer a single set of components in the front. Others prefer a front-rear setup. This largely depends on whether you're looking for an "on-the-dash" sound or all-around sound. If you're looking for all-around sound, the COM-626/COX-622 front-rear package is a good choice right now.



What should I look for in an installer in my area -- there's *lots* of options, from shade-tree guy in his yard to Big Box stores to total high end custom shops -- if I spend the money on the speakers I want to be sure the install doesn't screw up the sound and I don't have the patience, time or anal-retentiveness to do it right :)



Installation is very important. Simply put, go with the best you can afford. I personally wouldn't trust the next door neighbor and I'd hesitate to go to a big box store. The high-end custom shops are a safe bet considering they're used to working on quality systems and will put the time and effort required to have your car sounding good.

[n10aguy]

Whew, OK -- Thank you very much for the thorough response, apparently I still have a lot to learn about the product lines :)


So yes, the cast basket drivers will offer improved performance. How much though is dependent on the specific drivers chosen.

I have been looking in the CL-61 line, and not knowing any better had found the EF-61's which appeared to have a cast basket. Maybe I should be looking at CL-61i's vs. CL-61e's as a fairer comparison?


Yes convertibles offer the most flexibility, but components provide the best sound. The ability to place the tweeter wherever you prefer in your car can drastically improve your soundstage. Furthermore, the nicer drivers are available strictly in non-convertible sets. The idea of having a centered tweeter is irrelevant due to the fact that it's not quite optimal. It's more important to have the tweeter placed correctly in the car than to have it placed directly at the mid.

Great data -- I didn't realize the drivers were better in component sets. Thanks.


Are you planning to bridge your amp? I would personally recommend doing this rather than running 60w to each crossover and then leaving your back 2 channels unused.

OK, a little confused here. I have a 4 channel amp, with 60WRMS per channel. I was planning on running one channel to the crossover for each of the doors (Front L + R and Rear L+R). If I bridge then I would be down to 2 channels, correct? Apologies if I am being obtuse :)


If you're looking for all-around sound, the COM-626/COX-622 front-rear package is a good choice right now.

I am definately looking for all-around sound. I am not familiar with the COM/COX front/rear set -- I see it on the CDT site but can't seem to locate any information on the actual drivers -- Would these be comparable to the CL-61i's? The MSRP sort of indicates that this kit might have less performance, is that a specious assumption?


Installation is very important. Simply put, go with the best you can afford. I personally wouldn't trust the next door neighbor and I'd hesitate to go to a big box store. The high-end custom shops are a safe bet considering they're used to working on quality systems and will put the time and effort required to have your car sounding good

Again, excellent advice. I kind of knew this is where it would end up, but the confirmation is helpful. Thanks again.

[josephharris]

Hi, I am just throwing this out there as another something to consider and another opinion. I would bridge your 4 Ch amp so you would have more power and just add new speakers to the front. Adding more power (via bridging) should give your more head room and allow for a cleaner sound, plus by adding some good front speakers and maybe some imaging tweeters you wouldn't need anything else. I would suggest going with the HD-62 (anniversary special). This will have a very nice all around sound with good crossovers and imaging tweeters which you could put in your A pillars. This is a bit more but should give you the sound you are looking for and the price is really good (compared to others). Also if you go to vertex audio (online) you might be able to do a trade in and save $100.00 if you had some old stuff lying around. Again just my 2 cents I have used the CL line before and for the price it’s great as well.

[n10aguy]

Thanks josephharris:

I agree, the HD-62AS looks like an awesome package -- I am looking into it an will probably go in that direction. I may end up having to bridge that amp o' mine, but will probably try it in 4 channel mode first with some decent CDT coax's in the rear.

Thanks again for the good advice!

Cheers

[josephharris]

I think you will not go wrong with what ever you choose. From the way it sounds now you have a factory set up or mostly and you want to get a better sound (which can go loud and can be clean). Well to me the first two places I would go for a better and louder sound (from a factory set up) is add power and better speakers. So it looks like whatever you do you will be doing this. I ran a 6 1/2 componant set up (cdt) and one 10" sub in my truck for 3 years with 40 watts going to the mids and highs (40 combined) and 250 on the sub. I liked the sound and it would get loud. Later I ran 40 watts to 6 1/2 mid bass and 40 watts to 5 1/4 midrange and highs and 300 to a sub and things still sounded good. So what I guess I am saying is that for your everyday listening you are right on track, and there will most likely be no need for bridging or more power. If things do not suite your tasts you could always go back and put the rear speakers on the HU and bridge the amp for more power to the front speakers later; or add another amp or whatever. I also like a concept you are using and that is use what you have and make the most of that and then fill in with good stuff.

[n10aguy]

Thanks for the encouragement, josephharris, I appreciate it. Since I've had the luxury of time while my sub enclosure is being built, I've re-thought the power question and decided to upgrade the amp while I was at it -- Most of my systems to date have been budget, best sound I could get for really low $$$, and I finally came to the conclusion after thinking through all the options that I wanted to splurge a little on the front end.

I did decide on the HD-62's up front, and will be using the COX-622's for rear fill. Since I was already over-budget I just took a tranquilizer and picked up an SQA-4100 while I was at it. The amp I currently have is matched very well power-wise to my sub, so I chose to leave that portion of the system alone.

I've made the concious decision to keep the factory head unit for a variety of practical and aesthetic reasons. I realize that I could probably get better sound with an aftermarket deck, but I really just want to keep the factory unit -- that way if my wide steals my truck she can operate the radio without needing a MSEE degree :) I have purchased s

[n10aguy]

OK, well, too much coffee and I prematurely terminated this post...ooops. To continue the thought, I have purchased some fairly well regarded LOC's with pretty high output levels (out of consideration for the forum I prefer not to mention the brand), so hopefully they will get me close to optimal sound given the setup. The sub enclosure is being tuned to my sub's T-S parameters, and will contain amp-racks so the whole shebang can go behine my rear seats and my darling children won't be stepping on my gear :)

Now the only trick is to find a local installer that will do good work without sending my wife into tachycardia....

I'll post updates as the install progress

Thanks again for all the feedback

Cheers